35 Somewhat Random Comments on Montana and Secession from the US
Mostly from the AR-15 Forum
The story of the Supreme Court case, Heller v. D.C. and the Montana attorney general, Secretary of State and legislators warning the Supreme Court that if the Court finds that there is no individual right to bear arms in the Constitution, is going to get interesting, to say the least.
It appears that if the Supreme Court sides with the District of Columbia in disarming gun owners and invalidating the constitutional protections contained in the Second Amendment, they would be in direct opposition to what all 50 states have guaranteed their citizens in the 50 state consitutions: the right to bear arms and protect themselves.
This has sparked questions.
If the Supreme Court decides what is constitutional and it runs counter to what every single state has clearly worded as a guaranteed right in the state constitutions, written at the time those states freely joined the Union, what then?
At this point, we’re not going to speculate until we do more research.
BUT that hasn’t stopped others, particularly gun owners from weighing in on the consequences.
At the AR-15 Forums, a large forum for gun owners, the comments have been flying fast and furious since the news of the Montana legislators sending their warning to the Supreme Court that a finding of “collective right” would violate the compact the state signed with the US government when the state freely joined the Union.
Many of the comments there–and one in particular at DBKP–struck as as so entertaining, informative, funny or a combination of all 3, that we decided to round some up and make them into a story.
We now present a somewhat random sampling of 35 comments on the Montana story from the AR-15 forum.
Article 2 Section 26 – Bearing arms
Section 26. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself or the state shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain, or employ an armed body of men.“
“If AZ and NV go, Hoover Dam and all the power generation come with us… CA can build their own power plants.“
“I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me.”
–anjan9 (originally said by the Russian boat XO in Tom Clancy’s ‘The Hunt for Red October’)
“The “minutemen” (or are you thinking of the Freemen?) weren’t supported by the Montana state government or any allied state governments. Totally different situation. This would be like 1860/61 where people would be running back and forth choosing sides. Go read some history. There were loads of people who’s families were torn apart by differences in opinion on allegiance to their state or to the imperial federal government. Lots of people from the north moved to the south specifically to join the confederate army, and vice versa.
If state governments are involved, the thing could very easily get very ugly very quickly. Montana just needs to hope some states will jump in on their side.
Edited to add: By the way… I wonder how many nukes Montana has? Just wondering.
I’m sick of the waffling pussy-ass politicians in most states. It’s about time somebody _somewhere_ had the guts to call a spade a spade.
Those who think that’s “crackpot” can just go on letting the shit go on in their own state and slowly become “subjects” instead of citizens. Too bad some people think standing up for what’s right is “stoopid”.”
“Maybe Wyoming could secede as well? President Cheney!“
–steve in Washington
“So, if all of you ARFCOMers move to Montana after they secede, would the US respond militarily and the handful of armchair comandos have to face the US Army? That would suck balls.“
One comment in particular was extremely pertinent to the discussion.
GUN RIGHTS: STATE Constitutions & Gun Rights
Alabama Constitution art. I, § 26:
Alaska Constitution art. I, § 19:
Arizona Constitution art. 2, § 26:
Arkansas Constitution art. II, § 5:
Colorado Constitution, art. II, § 13:
Connecticut Constitution, art. I, § 15:
Delaware Constitution, art. I, § 20:
Florida Constitution, art. I, § 8:
Georgia Constitution, art. I, § I, para. VIII:
Hawaii Constitution, art. I, § 15:
Idaho Constitution, art. I, § 11:
Illinois Constitution, art. I, § 22:
Indiana Constitution, art. I, § 32:
Kansas, Bill of Rights § 4:
Kentucky Bill of Rights, § I, para. 7:
Louisiana Constitution, art. I, § 11:
Maine Constitution, art. I, § 16:
Massachusetts Constitution, art., Declaration of Rights, pt. I, art XVII:
Michigan Constitution, art. I, § 6:
Mississippi Constitution, art. 3, § 12:
Missouri Constitution, art. I, § 23:
Montana Constitution, art. II, § 12:
Nebraska Constitution, art. I, § 1:
Nevada Constitution, art. 1, § II, para. 1:
New Hampshire Constitution, art. part 1, art. 2-a:
New Mexico Constitution, art. II, § 6:
North Carolina Constitution, art. I, § 30:
North Dakota Constitution, art. I, § 1:
Ohio Constitution, art. I, § 4:
Oklahoma Constitution, art 2, § 26:
Oregon Constitution, art. I, § 27:
Pennsylvania Constitution, art. I, § 21:
Rhode Island Constitution, art. I, § 22:
South Carolina Constitution, art. I, § 20:
South Dakota Constitution, art. VI, § 24:
Tennessee Constitution, art. I, § 26:
Texas Constitution, art. I, § 23:
Utah Constitution, art. I, § 6:
Vermont Constitution ch. I, art. 16:
Virginia Constitution, art. I, § 13:
Washington Constitution, art. I, § 24:
West Virginia Constitution, art. III, § 22:
Wyoming Constitution, art. I, § 24:
“Texas can, Texas has it in the State constitution ” The right to succeed“”
–point target, on the illegality of states seceding from the union
“Please cite which clause. I’ve read the Texas Constitution and cannot seem to find it. In fact, Article I, Section 1 of the Texas Constitution seems to state just the opposite:
Sec. 1. FREEDOM AND SOVEREIGNTY OF STATE. Texas is a free and independent State, subject only to the Constitution of the United States, and the maintenance of our free institutions and the perpetuity of the Union depend upon the preservation of the right of local self government, unimpaired to all the States.
Perpetuity means forever, in case you were not sure.“
“My reading of the Statehood contract, if it was anulled, is that it would simply revert Montana to a US Territory, eliminating all Federal tax revenues from the state. That would be perfectly legal, if the contract is held as valid. As such, Federal revenue or “tax” collecting agencies such as the IRS, BATFE, and Social Security administration would not be welcome any longer. Of course that also means MT would not get Federal monies for Highways, schools, law enforcement etc anymore. It would not become a separate country, but would have much greater leeway in governing itself. It would become the “US Territory of Montana”. JMHO.“
“Let’s join our Montana brethren! Uphold the constition!“
“I pity all you nay sayers who would rather live as slaves than die defending your rights. So what of MT would be obliterated if they seceded? We would die fighting for our rights. As long as we didn’t kill innocent civilians left and right we would be on the level of the early American revolutionaries.“
“I make damn good chicken wings. I can open up a chicken wing joint. We will have to concentrate on getting nukes, a professional football team, and a quality first rate beer. You have to have at least two of these to call yourself a country.“
–colklink, on Montana seceding.
“I still think North Idaho, Eastern Washington, and Montana need to form their own state.“
“Thing I never understood is, can’t states enact a Constitutional amendment on their own? *dig dig dig* Yes they can.“
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;
“So why don’t they? And I’m not thinking about this because of gun rights, but all the other crap the federal gov does, like threatening to withhold use federal tax revenue to coerse the state to comply with their (congress’) will.“
“Seriously guys, if you want to move up to Montana, I will help you do the legwork. I have been advocating moving out of socialist states. Yes the pay is lower, yes it gets F00king cold but you know what, I like having my liberty and freedom more than I like money.”
“Starting to hit the local talk radio stations here in MT. Overwhelmingly positive. Only a few Judas Goats fighting for socialism. Amazing how it hasn’t hit the national news.”
“Well OKLAHOMA is SAFE
Section II-26: Bearing arms – Carrying weapons.
The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his
home, person, or property, or in aid of the civil power, when
thereunto legally summoned, shall never be prohibited; but
nothing herein contained shall prevent the Legislature from
regulating the carrying of weapons.“
“Montana rocks!!!! I could see some states following Montana. Maybe Indiana, doubtful.“
“It would be the safest place on earth. Oh, and 100% zombie free.“
“Justice Ginsberg responded immediately after waking up and hearing the news.
“Kill all white Christian males, their wives and any Indians that still think they are allowed to hunt. Send the children to re-education camps. White kids will serve as helpers. And we can send the brown people up there. Is that bitch O’Connor around to complain?”
She then fell back to fall asleep re-reading the NYT article on her appointment.“
–Pat, comment on DBKP story, “Montana to Secede: Montana Legislators Warn Supreme Court Not to Violate Compact over gun Rights“
“Those politicians are Barry Goldwater Conservatives. You cannot find any of those in the Northeast. You can still find some of them in the South.“
–C-4, in response to the comment, “Montana legislators have a set of big ones. It’s about time politicians somewhere, anywhere stood up for individual rights being taken away.”
“the thoughts of the Montana Militia battling the US would be so fucked. I would think that the soldiers would know right from wrong and lay down thier arms and release Montana to its Destiny. I am all for smaller govt. I think states should have more power than they do. the FED GVT is definitely on my short list.“
“So thirty other states are pushing for the individual right interpretation? Nice. I wonder if any are going to step up and go as far as Montana has?“
“I don’t know, but I hope Alabama joins the new confederacy. If not, I’m moving to Montana. I am SO glad the folks out in that state have shown that there are still some people in this country who love and support the original intent of the constitution and bill of rights. FINALLY, they have proven to me that I was wrong. I thought nobody in this country had the balls to stand up for what’s right anymore, but it looks like MONTANA still stands for what’s right. Good on ’em for it!!!”
“Damn. And here I never thought Id move outa New England again. It will be interesting to see what transpires after Heller is decided.“
“Meh…I’m not too big on moving to Montana. I think I’ll stick around down here in AZ. Maybe I can run some interference or mail care packages to my comrades in arms to the north?”
“Montana, the Dakota’s, Wyoming, Nevada, Idaho, Kansas, then of course Kentucky with West Virginia, maybe Tennessee, eventually Georgia, Florida. Fuck the Liberals would be shitting themselves.”
“Western Canada might well join us. A lot of them are as sick of Ottawa as we are of Washington D.C.”
“yes. Ottawa keeps stealing cash and running them into the ground over their oil sands. Ottawa gives nothing in return. They’re a parasite. I think this is looking pretty good for us if shit goes south with Heller. There has been a lot of talk about secession from Western Canada for a while now.”
“Interesting. Wouldn’t the federal government effectively crush any attempt at secession? And a friend pointed out to me: isn’t this sedition?“
“It is in no way sedition. They are stating that if the contract is violated, they will take appropriate moral and legal action.”
“Dang for Utah..Sec. 3. [Utah inseparable from the Union.] The State of Utah is an inseparable part of the Federal Union and the Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land.
But we also have it.
Article I, Section 6. [Right to bear arms.]
The individual right of the people to keep and bear arms for security and defense of self, family, others, property, or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes shall not be infringed; but nothing herein shall prevent the Legislature from defining the lawful use of arms.
Edit to add newer version of our right to bear arms. Old version said nothing about an individual right.“
“Wow! Montana has more balls than any other state in the Union! I believe that I would try to move there if it did secede.
I wonder if China and Russia would recognize Montana’s independence? I would think it would be highly, highly likely they would. One or more states withdrawing from the Union would be the biggest loss of face for the USA since the Civil War. If the USA tried to take back Montana by force, I would imagine that China and Russia would try their best to supply arms and aid to Montana (too bad Montana doesn’t have any coast line)… I hope all you guys in Montana like AKs and RPGs!
Unfortunately, there would be no way that Montana alone could defeat the USA in open conflict. The only trump card is if Montana could retain functional control of any remaining nuclear silos.“
“If the SC really does make a “collective rights” interpretation, and Montana secedes, I’ll mail my stripes to the President. He can keep them.”
“Indiana BOR: Section 32. The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.”
“Does MT have an Ammunition Supply Point? Not much advantage in having M1 tanks if the ammunition for them is stored at the tank range in Gowan Field, Idaho.
The other problem is that once the unit returns to the US, they get raped. This happened to us: All our M-4s and PVS-14s immediately got stripped from us upon our return, and sent to a deploying unit.”
“Samuel Adams said something like what you just said back in the 1770’s when the nay sayers (then known as loyalists) were crying “You can’t do this – it’ll never work! Britain is the greatest military power on earth! You’re crazy!!!”
His comment: “If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen”.”
There you have it: a sampling of what gun enthusiasts, at least at the AR-15 site, have to say about the upcoming Supreme Court case of Heller v. D.C.
Are they right?
Are they wrong?
More importantly, are they entertaining?
What do you think?
* AR-15 Forums
* Montana to Secede: Montana Legislators Warn Supreme Court Not to Violate Compact over gun Rights
Death by 1000 Papercuts Front Page.